WEBVTT

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(NARRATOR) Javier Romañach,
Human Rights activist in Spain.

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Guillermo Fesser, journalist.
<i>Gomaespuma</i>.

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(GUILLERMO) Have you heard of
the cyborg, the legendary character?

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(JAVIER) Yes, Neil Harbisson.

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He's not a legend, he's a guy
who appears everywhere

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claiming that he's
the first cyborg in history.

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(GUILLERMO) What exactly is a cyborg?
Is it a compendium of...?

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(JAVIER) A cyborg is a mixture
between human and machine.

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What the guy did,
since he was color-blind,

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was to implant a camera with a chip
transmitting sounds conveying colors.

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(GUILLERMO) When he had
an excuse to run traffic lights.

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For example, you,
who are mechanized, are you a cyborg?

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(JAVIER) I discovered it
when I heard him speak.

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If it's about having cybernetics
like my wheelchair,

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which has a lot
of sophisticated hardware‍,

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and the human side, which is me,
I am the human in the chair‍,

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I've been a cyborg for 20 years.

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(GUILLERMO) There are
many cyborgs down the street.

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But this guy, as he has appeared
on the news, seems like Superman.

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And then there are people like you,

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or a neighbor,
or some man with other devices,

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a cane and such, who don't...

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(JAVIER) Being a cyborg is different
from needing a wheelchair,

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I don't know if I explained it right.

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(GUILLERMO) It's the same,
but it's understood differently.

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(JAVIER) If I said: "I'm a cyborg"

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and went demanding
the rights of the cyborgs

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to enter some buildings,
there would be technologists

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defending my rights.

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Since I'm just a poor guy

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who goes around in a wheelchair,
I'm screwed.

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When you start to describe
yourself in another way,

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going from, for example,
cyborg to disabled,

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it's a whole other world,
and that requires technology.

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Well, functional diversity
somehow affects disability.

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That is, it's a person
who functions in a different way

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and needs cyborgs
or gadgets to function,

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or a person who can't do things.

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If you are telling people
that they can't do things,

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that vision is: "You can't do them."

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And when you can't do everything,

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everything you're given
is like a favor.

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For example, the blind,

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because seeing the screen
and being blind aren't compatible.

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(GUILLERMO) It's bad for them.

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(JAVIER) There's a system
to listen to the screen,

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like the cyborg that hears
what he sees through the camera,

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you can listen to the screen.

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What's the issue?
It's considered an assistive device

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instead of a cyborg.

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(GUILLERMO) So a portion of society
has had disastrous marketing.

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(JAVIER) I'd never seen it that way.
Yes, indeed, yes.

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(GUILLERMO) It's very bad.
It's being seen as charity,

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perceiving: "Oh, poor people...,"

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instead of approaching it
as a question of human rights.

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"Hey, excuse me,
I also want to get on the bus."

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(JAVIER) That's right.

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You buy an IPad
or "iPlof" or whatever,

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and with all that
you've bought a gadget,

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but if you need a screen reader,
it's no longer a gadget;

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it's an assistive device.

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(GUILLERMO) Very bad marketing.

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For honest and decent people,
and for the "poor people".

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(JAVIER) The UNED is working hard
to try to explain to people

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that these assistive devices,

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especially for students,
generate new gadgets.

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(GUILLERMO) That a man
in a wheelchair can climb a mountain.

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A blind man
might also like to listen to music,

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not just to sell lottery tickets,
he might want to be an attorney...

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Various inventions,
we're talking about gadgets here.

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(JAVIER) It's crystal clear.
What happens is that we're talking

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about the difference
between an assistive device

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and a gadget.

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An assistive device

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becomes a gadget and cool
when it reaches the general public.

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As long as you invented it
for a deaf or a blind person...

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Then it's an assistive device,
which is a niche thing.

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But the truth is that a vast majority
of these assistive devices

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end up becoming inventions
that all of society uses,

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then, they are cool,
they are gadgets, they're great.

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The most paradigmatic example
is that of Alexander Graham Bell,

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who invented the telephone
because his mother was deaf

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and lived in a deaf community.

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He wanted the deaf to hear,
so he tried to create

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a system of sound amplification
and remote transmission.

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And so, there are
a lot of inventions like that.

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Maybe you knew
that the typewriter was invented

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for a blind person,
for an Italian countess.

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(GUILLERMO) That must've been
Mrs. Olivetti, of course.

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(JAVIER) You probably have a GPS,
maybe in your car...

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(GUILLERMO)
Me? I have two or three GPS.

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Can't you tell
that I buy every GPS that I see?

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(JAVIER) It tells you:
"Turn right in 200 meters."

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That voice synthesis began to develop
many years ago

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so that the blind
could have access to information.

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And the same technology is used
in what is called a "screen reader."

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(GUILLERMO)
But how did they carry that?

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(JAVIER) The device
is a piece of hardware.

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So, it was used for elevators...

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(GUILLERMO)
"Arriving at the fifth floor."

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(JAVIER) Exactly, to be able
to access information that...

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(GUILLERMO) "José Luis,
you're going to run into the column."

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(JAVIER) "In 200 meters,
avoid the column."

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And then, that technology,
which was speech synthesis,

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you take it out and you turn it
into something that everyone uses.

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It turns out
that we discovered that we humans

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have to do many things at once,
and we can no longer look.

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To drive you must keep
your eyes on the road.

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If you look at the GPS,
you'll crash, right?

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So, there's predictive text now
on mobile phones,

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which completes the words.

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That was created from another gadget
they call an "assistive device."

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There are people
who use only a button,

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as they can't handle more things.

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For example, an arm or a foot,
they can only do like this.

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Then what you do
is go across a keyboard;

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that is, "the A," well,
then going: "A, B, C, D..."

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(GUILLERMO)
And that takes a long time.

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(JAVIER) Yes. So, to speed it up,

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a technology was invented
many years ago

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called "predictive text,"

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to speed up the process
by hitting just one option.

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(GUILLERMO) It's 8 in the morning
and you type "C,"

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and it puts "Coffee," right?

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(JAVIER) Exactly.

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(GUILLERMO) And if it's
8 at night, "Cocktail," right?

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(LAUGHTER)

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I'm going to tell you a story
about the remote control.

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I'm going to tell you now,
very quickly.

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The remote control was invented,

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and José Manuel La Peña's father
bought a television with one.

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He was a very classic, conservative,
elegant and simple man,

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but very fussy about his things.

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He turned the TV on and placed
the remote on top of the set.

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He sat in his armchair,

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and when he had to change
the channel,

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he went over to the television,
grabbed the remote, and changed it.

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So, his son says to him:
"Dad, it's a remote control..."

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"No, the remote control stays here.
Don't touch it."

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So the remote control
remained on the television,

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He had to move like everyone else,
but he was happy.

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(JAVIER) Others
mustn't have been like that.

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In fact, you wouldn't be able
to watch TV without a remote control.

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You wouldn't be able to have
a GPS without speech synthesis,

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nor would operate a computer
if it didn't have a keyboard.

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All the efforts devoted
to the extremes of human diversity,

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to the extremes
of humans' functional diversity,

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end up benefitting everyone.

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(GUILLERMO) And I have this question,
from a personal concern:

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the assistive devices, the gadgets
to be a cyborg when you're older,

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how does it work?

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Does one go to the pharmacy
with a prescription,

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or do they sell it
at department stores?

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(JAVIER) There's different types

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depending on whether
they're gadgets or assistive devices.

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Some come directly: if you buy
an iPad, it already speaks to you.

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Mobile phones already talk to you,
many of them, right?

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Gadgets are already built in.

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What was once only for the blind,
now we've discovered

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that it's very good for us,
to tell us who's calling us,

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so we can avoid picking up the phone.

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(GUILLERMO) What they call
"accessibility elements?"

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For people who want a ramp
instead of stairs,

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if you can't see the screen,
they give you a voice...

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(JAVIER) That's right.

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When the product is widespread,
when it has reached many people,

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then it's included.

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All these operating systems
come with things that you can add.

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(GUILLERMO) That's because those
who had to push for them did so.

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(JAVIER) American legislation
forced them to do it.

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"Otherwise,
I, the federal government,

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won't buy from you.

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And since I'm
the best customer you have...."

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(GUILLERMO) That's one thing...

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(JAVIER) There are other products,
and they are expensive,

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like a speech synthesis system
that reads the entire computer screen

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with all the windows,
with all the internet,

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with everything...

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(GUILLERMO) For example, if you're
blind and to look for an apartment.

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(JAVIER) While they're
"assistive devices,"

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they're expensive.

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Then they become cheaper,
as they realize:

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"It's not an assistive device,
it's a gadget."

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Then it becomes a gadget,
and the technology spreads.

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Then it's no longer expensive
and is included.

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The only thing you have to do
is to have an open mind.

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And as long as people continue
to have the "disabled version"

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that we give them, a little product
to use and not like...

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"What a gadget we're going to get,
one that's good for all of us."

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(GUILLERMO) Pure marketing,
pure marketing.

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And what's needed
is a good advertising agency.

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(JAVIER) That's right.

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(GUILLERMO) A good one
with well-prepared people.

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(JAVIER) Back to the subject at hand.
I already have all the gadgets.

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We've given the blind man
the gadgets, he can use a computer.

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Then we go to buy a plane ticket,

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the company has made
an inaccessible web page.

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So the gadget becomes a problem,

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because things
are not in the order they should go,

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Customer Service says
that there's no way to access "Buy,"

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or no way to access the window
where the flight is indicated.

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Well, in the end
we made a mess of things.

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(GUILLERMO) So...

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The support elements are the ramp,

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but if the place
doesn't have a door...

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(JAVIER) That's right.

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(GUILLERMO) How is accessibility
on webpages going?

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Do people make accessible websites,
or is that very rare?

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You have your reader there...

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(JAVIER) I spent ten years trying
to make websites accessible,

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I think now about 0.01% of websites
are accessible...

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(GUILLERMO) And good ones?
At least good ones? Or, not even...

00:09:20.160 --> 00:09:23.360 align:center line:-2
(JAVIER) A bit of everything.
The strangest thing about all this...

00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:24.840 align:center line:-1
(GUILLERMO) The <i>Interviú</i> one, right?

00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:27.080 align:center line:-2
(JAVIER) Oh my God,
I didn't think of that.

00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:29.400 align:center line:-1
Curiously, there was a law in 2002

00:09:29.440 --> 00:09:32.560 align:center line:-2
that required all pages to be
accessible, but that didn't happen.

00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:34.160 align:center line:-1
Half are public, by the way.

00:09:34.200 --> 00:09:36.680 align:center line:-2
In 2002, all public administrations
were required

00:09:36.720 --> 00:09:38.640 align:center line:-1
to make webpages accessible.

00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.160 align:center line:-2
(GUILLERMO) 2002 was a terrible year.
They also chose a year that...

00:09:42.200 --> 00:09:45.560 align:center line:-2
(JAVIER) Since it didn't go well,
they put it off until 2006,

00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:47.320 align:center line:-1
then until 2011.

00:09:47.360 --> 00:09:50.080 align:center line:-2
Then we have a law...
We have a lot of laws

00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:51.800 align:center line:-1
but not accessible webpages.

00:09:52.040 --> 00:09:55.320 align:center line:-2
(GUILLERMO) So, all the young people
thinking about designing a webpage

00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:57.720 align:center line:-2
have to think that it must be
designed to be accessible.

00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.000 align:center line:-1
(JAVIER) Yes, but...

00:10:00.040 --> 00:10:02.040 align:center line:-2
(GUILLERMO) In order
for the gadgets to be worth something

00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:04.280 align:center line:-2
and, above all,
so that we benefit from...

00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:07.560 align:center line:-2
(JAVIER) Yes, but once you have
gadgets that work,

00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:09.680 align:center line:-2
that force the webpages
to be user-friendly,

00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:11.480 align:center line:-1
what you get is a better webpage.

00:10:11.520 --> 00:10:14.520 align:center line:-2
Do you know what happens
when we talk about all these gadgets,

00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:18.280 align:center line:-2
all this gadgetry, Superman
and cyborgs, etc.?

00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.760 align:center line:-2
In the end, everyone believes that,
with gadgets, we can fix everything.

00:10:22.800 --> 00:10:23.840 align:center line:-1
(GUILLERMO) Right.

00:10:23.880 --> 00:10:27.520 align:center line:-2
(JAVIER) These gadgets are great,
and necessary, but not enough.

00:10:27.560 --> 00:10:29.920 align:center line:-2
I'm gonna give you
a very clear example.

00:10:29.960 --> 00:10:33.480 align:center line:-2
I have all the computers adapted,
with mice just for me,

00:10:33.520 --> 00:10:36.280 align:center line:-2
voice recognition,
and I've inverted the contrast

00:10:36.320 --> 00:10:38.040 align:center line:-1
because it's better, at my age...

00:10:38.080 --> 00:10:40.320 align:center line:-2
But, of course,
there's the little problem of:

00:10:40.360 --> 00:10:42.200 align:center line:-2
"I'm going to connect
a pen drive," right?

00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:45.600 align:center line:-2
Then I can't pick up the pen drive
because I don't have the dexterity,

00:10:45.640 --> 00:10:48.640 align:center line:-2
I don't have the strength
to put it in or to take it out.

00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:50.120 align:center line:-1
There comes a time when you say:

00:10:50.160 --> 00:10:52.880 align:center line:-2
"Until I have
an automatic pen connector gadget,

00:10:52.920 --> 00:10:54.800 align:center line:-2
what you always need
is a support person,

00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:56.840 align:center line:-1
what we call a personal assistant."

00:10:56.880 --> 00:11:00.600 align:center line:-2
(GUILLERMO) You may have an eyebrow
chip that programs your microwave,

00:11:00.640 --> 00:11:03.320 align:center line:-2
but you have to put the chicken in...
(JAVIER) It's that simple.