Good afternoon, everyone.
Welcome to the session.
We hope you enjoy this
lunchtime here with all of us.
It's my pleasure to introduce you to my colleague,
Marina moreno and Vermeulen,
an evening Associate Professor of English language and linguistics
at the National Spanish University of Business Education Unit, Spain.
She's an active member of the unit based Atlas and Arena research groups.
Her research interests are twofold.
One handy little innovation in language analysis of learning.
And on the other, the pedagogical applications
of the initial translation Language teaching or learning
are particularly of the audio description.
Also, our colleague
Nolan is associate professor at the Department of Translation,
Interpretation and Communication of the Faculty of Arts
and Humanities of the University Belgium.
She teaches Spanish structures, translations, manage Dutch
and other research translation.
Her research focuses on translation strategies and techniques, pragmatic
aspects of linguistic variation in the official translation
as well as didactic, is a translation as a tool in for language,
teaching and learning.
They are here today to present
the talk
title of the visual of your description.
Sorry under the script to promote translators idiomatic
on the practice with predominate verbs in Spanish.
So that's it. We go. Thank you.
I hope you are not too sleepy after lunch.
Some of you already know us from our publications.
This is a joint venture between Ghent, Belgium
and other units in the area in Madrid.
And it all began with a search and intention,
a wish, My wish to design.
I see that you are very selecting
the design, the design courses
courses, motivating more challenging courses,
because I work with students who have a B2 level
and there are many courses on them, a one, a two level.
But when we reach a B2 level, it's
more difficult because we are not talking about it.
We still are talking about errors, but that's not the main thing
we want to explain.
We are talking really about idiomatic city.
What we want to do is that our students
express themselves in Spanish as a native student would do,
and that's the more the most challenging objective. So
we that's why we wanted to explore the possibilities
of the use of audio description in the classroom for Spanish.
But we also have an application or two applications on English
with Maria Giordano.
When I studied languages many years ago
and it has already been said this morning, it was almost forbidden
to talk about translation because they were very scared
that we would copy structures and words from the source text.
And so when I began working with audio visual translation
within the course of audio visual translation, audio description,
that's when I thought, Well, here we don't have the source text.
The students only have images.
They have, like you explained it, they have to make a mental image
and then translated into another language.
Of course, the question here is do they really translate
the image, the mental image immediately into the foreign language,
or do they first translate it mentally in their mother tongue?
And then then it would be
not a written translation, but a mental translation.
And I will answer this question because I'm just going to present
how we did it and I will present the findings of our project.
All our projects were
pseudo experimental studies with my students
and the context is a third bachelor.
So the third year and the Department of Translation interpretation
and communicate.
One of my faculty,
all the students have to be to level in Spanish
and pass this in the second semester and the first semester
they all or almost everyone had spent four
or five months in Spain, so we hoped that they would be able
to think in Spanish also to answer if they did that.
So we had 58 Flemish students, and I'm very lucky and again,
to have each year also a group of at least 20 Spanish
native students in the Erasmus students.
So to decide if they really express
the way what they see, the same way of a native.
We compare with what the Spanish students say, not with only one DVD
and on the DVD, but with here in this case,
46 versions of the same
ID of the same clip that's made by Spanish people.
So, as you know, in order description can be made to
in two ways, it can be a translation of an already existing script,
or it can be a creation of a new audio
description script from scratch, from the images.
So we had two groups.
We separated the students in two groups
and a control group who made it into lingual translation.
They translated a Dutch audio description script
into a Spanish text to text, and then we had the experimental group
of students who made it into semiotic translation
from the images from scratch.
They had to make a Spanish audio
description script from the same clip
and when we compare to the versions
of the Spanish people, the Spanish students and our students,
we saw many things and perhaps those who already read some publications.
We have studied lexical problems.
We have studied
although grammatical problems, for instance, pronouns, critics.
So we saw many differences between
both ways of expressing themselves.
But for instance, the problem reserves were a big issue
for the Belgian people and also for the English.
We are very happy that our work would be continued by Adriana.
You probably have seen that on the program tomorrow
Adriana is going to talk about her findings.
She's following us.
She's doing the same thing, but with English students.
So we did it with Dutch students and she's talking about English students,
although Dutch and English have many things in common.
So we saw a big difference in to use of a number of verbs
because we in Dutch, we only have reflexive verbs
and all the other cases that you use that
use Spanish people use pronoun verbs, as in the case of passive
voice or in the case of possessive scipione.
No one
this an English person on a Dutch person would say Vanessa's one this
we use the pronoun there where you use a C pronoun
also special meaning these perhaps are the most difficult ones.
I don't know if you'll find the findings all the same,
but perhaps when I ask the Spanish people
what's the difference between civil taxi is as well?
Taxi.
It's very difficult also to explain what difference is
there between problem phenomena or not.
That's not the case of the second one's fundamental
in Spanish, but not in that where you have a difference in the
in signification, the DNA,
but the DNA and little on this.
Conversely, in English, we do not stop.
No, but this was said DNA. Either DNA is
retained or LA policia.
The DNA arrests reversed
and say their DNA is still be stops.
So that's all that's clear.
And the since I could you could use dictionaries
that they can find in a dictionary but the last ones and the
the possessive that's not so very hard to find also in the grammar.
Benjamin Button.
Benjamin talk about it but in a normal Spanish grammar,
they don't highlight this difference between the
here you see the p value,
the differences between because we already published it.
That's why I don't give any details.
But the p value was high enough to say if there is a significant difference
in the use of peripheral verbs between the Dutch and Spanish students.
So our research questions, where is there
a significant difference
in the use of memorable verbs in Spanish by Belgian students, Dutch
speaking students between the inter lingual text to text
and the into semiotic image to text translation.
The second research question was Is there a significant improvement
in the use of PVS in Spanish?
In a similar second task,
we were very happy to find two sequences, two clips,
very similar in content, and so we could repeat the task.
And the last question, very interesting.
And also once according to the students,
which is the most challenging because it was what
I was looking for, a challenging not not an easy
task, but a challenging task.
And which of the both stocks were most beneficial
the inter linguistic text or text or the inter semiotic image to text.
So we used the match point and the Maria video.
Woody Allen
I'm not going
to talk about the content because I'm going to study the film,
but it's a very important sequence with almost no dialog.
And you also said you should go for sequences without dialog,
very few of almost the same length
for 4 minutes and three, almost 4 minutes also.
And also the ad on the DVD, The Spanish
lady on the DVD, more or less 500 words.
So that is what they did for
only a few seconds, as I see it
across it.
They want. To.
Do this.
The procedures where it all began with the preparation.
It's like they're open.
They see it and understand. What.
They want to see it.
So so I think this is something.
That I appreciate once in every do.
I get
to sleep almost them
with friendship
where they want to watch another generation.
And we.
Can. Comment on this.
So the procedures, it all begin with the preparation phase.
Almost half an hour in the classroom.
They had to fill in a pre questionnaire
to know the profile because we selected in the third year
bachelor girl, people, students, we didn't finish the second year,
so we really wanted to be to level.
So all the those who were between two years we left them out
or if they had another mother tongue with some students we didn't.
They didn't know it, but
we selected a group
that would be equal and more or less equal.
So the pre questionnaire and then we gave them
a brief introduction to what order description is
one to describe what to describe how to describe.
And then they had an hour and a half, half to make
an ad or two to make a translation.
And they could use all the tools, translation tools, deep L
We felt they could use all that they wanted to use.
And then we had a revision phase 2 hours where we discussed
all the errors, not only the problem of words
with real examples from their texts
and finally a post questionnaire about the their feelings about it.
Well, they thought about the lessons and the tasks they had to perform
and the test to see if if there was any result.
Also, half an hour.
An hour.
We present you the results.
Well, the video,
if you have watched much point,
it was a specifically there were two videos.
Very interesting.
The second video is where am I going to do a spoiler?
Have you have you all of you watched much point
where what is an increased risk is one.
The second clip is
when Krista goes to the apartment of the old lady and gives her.
Does is first and then the. Science. Of course.
And in the second one is when she gives out.
So then they can start.
Very interesting.
But we didn't choose them because of the killings,
but we chose them because of the programing hours,
because there is a high amount of use of programing.
So here are some of the results,
although I'm going to focus,
especially as we have seen this morning,
that there are already other researchers, other colleagues
doing the same.
And this is something we had not to take
so much into account for our
the presentation of our results, which is the students perceptions.
And this is in our in this in this work we have
especially focused or we want to focus especially on their perceptions.
Before we were focusing more on the improvement
in their use of programing our which is so hard for them.
We are also working on reduction of meal first
because we think it can be very handy
for for future teachers, etc..
So first we will I will see, I will show briefly the
the the improvement you see here
the students who did the translation in the first include
they used an average of a ten per nominal verbs,
which is higher than the students who did the Audi description of the sink.
They used almost half the amount of per nominal verb standing.
The translation. Why?
Because in the translation they do a direct translation,
and so it's easier to identify these reflexive pronouns, not verbs.
In the second iteration,
we have, as you can see, an improvement because you you
you can see here in red the increase in the use of programing versus
reflexive
in the Spanish, both in the translation task,
in the aid desks, but we still see that there is a much higher
use of aid of permanent verbs in the translation task
than in the direct translation in the inter somatic translation.
And I'm finally
we can see here we we have the mean,
the the the mean of the, the media used the tendency in the
in the improvement I mean between the first task
and the second task in all of them, both groups and we count here
both the ones who did the translation task and the ones who did the
in their Semitic translation, the ADI.
And we see that there is a quite
significant improvement in the use of these
of these expressions.
But first
but now we we want to focus especially on the students perceptions.
We the Polish questionnaire, we we cannot show it here
because the link is not going to work,
but we will share it
even in the future.
Publications It was a quite a long questionnaire
where they had different types of questions
and now we have selected some of them here
and we wanted to see what was their perception.
And so one of the questions was
when I make an ID, when I produce an ID,
I make less errors, do I commit less errors?
So here we see that their perception, this kind of the
I don't know is true.
It is not true.
They are not.
These questions can help them
reflect
themselves about their perception, but they it was quite a neutral.
Let's say there is no
noticeable difference.
But they were explaining
what an interference error is, obviously, otherwise
they wouldn't understand the question
at all.
So we can see here that the translation task, the difference
between doing with a multimodal text such as a clip,
the difference between carrying out an IED or doing a normal
translation, that's normal average in their lingual translation.
That's when when a group is involved, there is a
little, say, more motivation for an I.D.
But the the difference is not so extreme.
As you can see, there was a almost 60% versus a 40% of the students.
40% of the students like more
the inter lingual translation, almost 60%
prefer the aid.
And the when they were asked about
the use of the visual material
in their whether they considered this was beneficial
for their translation skills in general,
we can see that there is also
if we put together the answers 3 to 5, we can see that
there is a positivity and that if you acquired the students
decided that they didn't like the task because we always have a motivated
students everywhere and so we could see they were quite
motivated in the with this idea that they could improve their
translation skills through
carrying out these type of tasks.
And they were positively
also involved in the
in their idea of using audiovisual material
when they had to improve their translation skills.
So instead of just a text to text average a type of translation
and there were many
other questions on here, we are going to summarize them all
because of the lack of time to show you all the
all the questions.
So to conclude, most of students considered,
we can say that they considered it an interesting tool to improve
their command of Spanish and of translation.
And they also indicated, although we don't we didn't include
a question related to these specific there were more specific questions
in the questionnaire.
They indicated that for them in their semantic translation,
which is the ad was more challenging.
So they in fact consider this translation
more challenging than on average in the lingual translation.
And in general,
they were satisfied with the progress they made with the experiment.
Belgian students.
I can say from my experience as a foreigner there
they are much more, let's say, cautious.
When they answer, they will then more to do the three and four than in
if that's their culture, the enthusiasm will not be as high
as with the Spanish students.
In fact, we did a publication about this,
which is
called Profiling Students when they do this type of task.
But we tested with an up
because we we noticed that there is a high difference in the
approach towards this type of task between Spanish students
and Belgian students.
But generally, students are more
how do you say less temperamental?
We could say, and well,
let's extreme.
Yes, let's just do this passionate, but more realistic.
That's also true.
And and finally, there were 39 students
who replied to the open question, which was not obligatory.
Okay, we don't want to overload them with the questionnaire,
the posters, etc..
So this was an optional question.
It is quite positive that so many students
responded to that question when it was optional
and in this case in general
there
they expressed interest in practicing ID
and they were very positive towards these tasks.
So the one school replied were positively motivated through I.D.
As regards the language results, language
learning results, we could say that both does.
Okay, so we have to finish.
And we just want to conclude
with the idea my time is finished, so
there was a hypothesis
by going Brooks Carson that we follow that says that the
foreign languages students perform better when they do their tasks,
which is when they have to write without a text that interferes.
So this was not confirmed because we could see that the students
who did a translation task and in the translation task used more
predominant verbs than the students who did other task.
So we can confirm again from the 1980s
that in the language was applied in this case also is is still
present nowadays with us
and well our results showed that
both tasks, all of the visual translation tasks
are positive, didactic, interesting for the students
and that the we cannot confirm that doing ADR tasks
is more beneficial for certain topics such as grammar.
In this case, the use of programing verbs
in concrete with respect to the language learning results, then
subtitling or other inter lingual translation tasks.
But it is true that they were they considered it was interesting
to foster their creativity and their
other types of skills, such as intercultural competence,
mediation, etc.
and the
best.
Okay.
Thank you, Anna and Anna, for this presentation.
Is there any question you would like to ask
something?
Yeah, I would like to ask a question about the German.
Most most presentations I see are dealing with like videos
and I would like to know if it's
beneficial to
work with other genres like
piece of art,
museum art or images.
Broker Both art are the types of
material that can be ordered described.
Also is that we had the in the presentation
this morning about museum of the description,
which was very interesting to this colleague there.
She's working on that and I found it very interesting, in fact, because it
combines also with other for instance, art is one of my passions.
For instance, I found it very interesting
the fact that they can
that you can ask students to to describe works of art.
So if you manage to get them involved in this on the art, as you know,
you can choose the works of art and some of them are interesting
for everybody.
So I'm finding on a
challenging so so yes even
drawings comics would be
would you describe everything that has visual images I think
would be used in the classroom?
Although what is considered out the description has to do with the
clips of video where there is a sequence of events,
but in museums and the description is also used.
Within literature, children's book
can be described also.
Because there are images.
So as far as you have images to describe,
the positive thinking of these would be that
there is no time limitation.
So maybe depending on the level of the students, on the type of task, etc.
can even be better because it can be quite restrictive
to tell them, okay, you have this clip and you have to describe
between the dialogs or don't overlap with the music.
These type of things have to do with transferable skills
that maybe you don't want to to address.
So it can be even
better depending on the context.
We have time for one more.
Sorry. Thank you. Yeah. Okay.
One more question.
Yes, I was wondering, you
know, responses to the questionnaire, they ever mentioned anything
your students ever mentioned anything about
learning in relation
to mass linguistic awareness and also integrating skills development?
Because that was two things that they mentioned.
My students mentioned that surprised me
because I was not asking them specifically about
if they thought under description
had helped them to develop several skills at some time.
And I have not asked them specifically is it
help them compare English and Spanish and
to let just convert in some of the open ended questions
mentioned it like
having to be more aware of how they express themselves with Spanish,
make them think about how they express themselves in English.
And also they liked the idea of working with listening and reading,
writing and all of that.
I wonder they also mentioned that or not.
Yes, well, in fact, in that post
questionnaire, because we didn't have time to show it, but there was
there was a specific section where we do
I don't remember another name where you have viability are variables.
Then they have to write all the violence.
And some of the questions were had to do with these, with this
linguistic awareness.
And we published something.
We talked, I think
about this, about linguistic
skills and what would we have seen all these years.
And they find it very funny is this anecdote that we always tell
about in the in the most
junior students, they go home from school when there is.
What is a novelty.
You know what they and is there the old lady
that is going to take a bit of sirup a cut of it.
And and we have to tell them that you cannot say
when you describe in no woman or them in these.
So this is what they help us realize that we should address
this type of errors
to help them develop these intercultural competence
or with these call.
Now mediation is key.
Is that to be aware of the audience and to be aware of their own subject
in view of the work that what is considered a copyright use
for us, not maybe for her.
Told us in the open questions, but they became much more aware
of the importance of saying the right.
Thing, which again.
Not only for the blind people with mental images in general.
Because we have worked a lot
in the class in the posting, in the revision revision phase,
this is something we did to address other the differences.
I we used to show them different
iterations of the same description, maybe seven and,
and I was saying here, this same event that is described
in the official description like these you have said
Senora ancienne,
blah blah, blah.
And then the to do to show then how their own view is subjective
and that a in this case it's not like you have to be objective
is more to make them aware of how we we see the word
and how it influences the way we speak.
Only some names like these going to have
and the person who is receiving this, especially somebody who is visual.
So it was images from Google image.
So then they stand in line rather than Basilio.
And then
different different parts
of the house, different, you
know, from the ground to check it.
When I come to say and we show it
with Google images so they can say, Oh, that's it.
Well, thank you.
I think that we have more room
for coffee time and more questions, whatever.
Thank you so much for your patience.